A bullet to the head
My condolences to the family of Jean Charles de Menezes. The loss of innocent lives, especially under circumstances such as these, is regrettable.
Personally I would not like to be shot five times in the head on my way to work (well maybe on my way TO work, but certainly not on my way back.) I do feel, however, that the resulting ho-ha is turning into one of those media stories that do no good but sell papers.
The family announced that they were thinking of suing the Met, and in an emotional statement on the news, a cousin of Menezes said the police should be stopped or else they would kill 'thousands more'.
Thousands more??
This is not Brazil, mate. The police don't shot people at a whim in Peckham on a daily basis, and we don't have favellas. In fact, hardly any of the police on UK streets carry fire-arms.
Given the circumstances leading up to the accidental shooting, I see no reasons why the Met should be sued. If a person fails to stop when told so by the police, and then proceeds to run into a busy underground station in the aftermath of a recent spate of bombing attacks, I would want that person to be restrained. Had he been a terrorist and managed to blow up and kill other people, the Met would have been criticised for not doing enough.
In Sao Paolo the police kill an estimated 600 people a year. Compare this to the amount of people killed by police in Europe per year and you get things into perspective. Had the victim been any one else but Menezes, I doubt the family would be on such a crusade.
Why run from the police in the first place? It is arguable that, because of his background in the slums of Brazil, Menezes' gut instinct was to run (and presumably given his background that is an instinct that would serve him well in Brazil). Sadly this is not how things work in the UK, and the Met shouldn't be chastised too much for not being aware of such circumstances.
Of course the whole incident should be properly investigated in the interest of public transparency, and I have no doubt that such an investigation is already in full swing.
But shit happens. It could have been me, it could have been you. I for one am certain that my family wouldn't sue had I failed to stop to armed police and then proceeded act in a fashion as to suggest I had something to hide. And yes, the Met are right to shoot. Only a moron would run full steam into a busy underground station chased by police a day after the most recent of bombing attempts in our city. We continuously expect the police to give us results, but we don't allow for any errors. And the police are, after all, humans too.
Whatever Menezes reasons were (and I suspect we'll never know), it was unfortunate but not a declaration of war on Brazil and certainly not extreme incompetence on behalf of the Met in my view. The ongoing investigation may prove me wrong, and I will gladly accept findings contrary to my views. But the hysteria currently being whipped up by the media and the relatives of Menezes helps no one, least of all Jean Charles.
Personally I would not like to be shot five times in the head on my way to work (well maybe on my way TO work, but certainly not on my way back.) I do feel, however, that the resulting ho-ha is turning into one of those media stories that do no good but sell papers.
The family announced that they were thinking of suing the Met, and in an emotional statement on the news, a cousin of Menezes said the police should be stopped or else they would kill 'thousands more'.
Thousands more??
This is not Brazil, mate. The police don't shot people at a whim in Peckham on a daily basis, and we don't have favellas. In fact, hardly any of the police on UK streets carry fire-arms.
Given the circumstances leading up to the accidental shooting, I see no reasons why the Met should be sued. If a person fails to stop when told so by the police, and then proceeds to run into a busy underground station in the aftermath of a recent spate of bombing attacks, I would want that person to be restrained. Had he been a terrorist and managed to blow up and kill other people, the Met would have been criticised for not doing enough.
In Sao Paolo the police kill an estimated 600 people a year. Compare this to the amount of people killed by police in Europe per year and you get things into perspective. Had the victim been any one else but Menezes, I doubt the family would be on such a crusade.
Why run from the police in the first place? It is arguable that, because of his background in the slums of Brazil, Menezes' gut instinct was to run (and presumably given his background that is an instinct that would serve him well in Brazil). Sadly this is not how things work in the UK, and the Met shouldn't be chastised too much for not being aware of such circumstances.
Of course the whole incident should be properly investigated in the interest of public transparency, and I have no doubt that such an investigation is already in full swing.
But shit happens. It could have been me, it could have been you. I for one am certain that my family wouldn't sue had I failed to stop to armed police and then proceeded act in a fashion as to suggest I had something to hide. And yes, the Met are right to shoot. Only a moron would run full steam into a busy underground station chased by police a day after the most recent of bombing attempts in our city. We continuously expect the police to give us results, but we don't allow for any errors. And the police are, after all, humans too.
Whatever Menezes reasons were (and I suspect we'll never know), it was unfortunate but not a declaration of war on Brazil and certainly not extreme incompetence on behalf of the Met in my view. The ongoing investigation may prove me wrong, and I will gladly accept findings contrary to my views. But the hysteria currently being whipped up by the media and the relatives of Menezes helps no one, least of all Jean Charles.
posted by tseuq at 7/25/2005 11:10:00 am
11 Comments:
Why run from the police in the first place? - alledgedly his visa had run out, might have been afraid of deportation... Petka
He vaulted the turnstiles first! (Joep)
Having an invalid visa obviously shouldn't be shootable offence, but he wasn't as innocent as his family portray him to be. Maybe now they'll accept what is what and move on?
Once again faulty intelligence lead to the death of an innocent person. Those who are responsible should take resposibilty for their actions and any consequences that might follow. Surely anyone should be held accountable for the killing of a fellow humanbeing?
I'd be interested to hear why you believe he was not as innocent as their family thinks? This can be said about virtually anyone without anything to back it up.
I think it is a little bit harsh to say to the family 'shit happens, time to move on' after ones sons head has been blown of, whatever the curcumstances, don't you?
Well this morning I found out that there's demonstrations in Menezes hometown, protesting at what took place. So it's okay for Brazilian police to kidnap, torture and kill other Brazilians for no reasons whatsoever apart from the fact that they can, but if one Brazilian is killed in the UK under circumstances which are understandable to many people living in London, we should all freak out and demand justice?
Give me a break. We all have something to hide, is that what you are suggesting?
If his visa had indeed run out, he was an illegal immigrant.
That is a crime , although not one that warrants shooting in Europe. In Brazil the authorities don't need an excuse to execute people, illegal immigrants or not.
Had he been a suicide bomber, which had I been present at the scene I would have assumed as well, more fellow human beings would have been killed. Would you then demand that he be held accountable? It's a bit late if he trigger sthe detonator, wouldn't you say?
Somehow putting a few bits of human remains on trial doesn't work.
You don't think people should be held accountable for their actions, whatever the curcumstances?
Just because a death is 'understandable to people in London' does that mean there should be no justice?
Maybe this man moved to the UK partially because of the unaccountability and lack of justice in Brazil.
Very valid point, Anonymous.
Last time I checked a massive investigation into the shooting was underway, so justice will be served one way or another. What more can you ask?
I don't measure justice in cash.
Will justice be more 'just' if the Menezes get loads of money?
If you read my entry you would understand that on the point of accountability we are in agreement. Don't be so quick in your evaluation of my principles and views (although having already suggested that I am ignorant, I don't expect you to).
I believe suing the Met will solve nothing. It won't bring Menezes back, will it?
If police officers are found guilty of gross misconduct as a result of Menezes unfortunate demise (which I suspect will happen by the way), safeguards will no doubt be put in place to ensure there's a smaller chance of something like this happening again.
Humans err, our job is to minimise the effects of such mistakes.
Suing the Met won't result in anything other than bigger bills for the taxpayer.
If, as I suggested, certain officers are indicted as a result of the ongoing investigation, that alone will ensure legislation intended to avoid such unfortunate event s in the future.
Not a civil court case. If the Menezes' decide to go through with their case, by the time they go to court the above mentioned measures will already have been put in place.
So what is the point? Suing the Met will not ensure that accidents happen in the future.
In my view all the family will achieve is to put a price on their deceased relative. How much is a human worth? How much is 'revenge' worth?
The death of Jean Charles was a tragedy, I think everyone agrees on that point.
"I for one am certain that my family wouldn't sue had I failed to stop"
you're right, there would probably be a thank you card in the post for the MET
"you're right, there would probably be a thank you card in the post for the MET"
No I don't think that is likely. I said my family wouldn't sue. That is not the same as suggesting they would be thrilled where I to wrongly meet my demise at the hands of the Met, is it?
If you are the same Anonoymous that so avidly discussed capitalism with me, please return to that thread, as we have unfinished business. If you are another Anonoymous, then thank you for your comment, please write again!
I'm not the anti cap anon I am Lord Bramley.
Indeed you are, indeed you are!
That also makes you qualified to make the statement about the postcard, because you know my family :)
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